The unusually blunt public exchange came at a town hall-style session with American soldiers at this camp 12 miles (20 km) south of the border with Iraq, where more than 1,200 US troops have died since the March 2003 invasion.

Hundreds of troops applauded a comrade who complained to Rumsfeld that US forces were being forced to dig up scrap metal to protect their vehicles in Iraq because of a shortage of armored ones. ?Now why do we soldiers have to dig through local landfills for pieces of scrap metal and compromised ballistic glass to up-armor our vehicles? And why don?t we have those resources readily available to us?? the soldier asked. Rumsfeld asked the soldier to repeat the question.

The soldier said, ?A lot of us are getting ready to move north (into Iraq) relatively soon. Our vehicles are not armored. We?re digging pieces of rusted scrap metal and compromised ballistic glass that?s already been shot up, dropped, busted -- picking the best out of this scrap to put on our vehicles to take into combat.? ?We do not have proper armament vehicles to carry with us north.?

Rumsfeld conceded that ?not every vehicle has the degree of armor that it would be desirable for it to have,? and said the Army was hurrying to provide more armored vehicles, adding 400 per month. But Rumsfeld added, ?As you know, you go to war with the Army you have, not the Army you might want or wish to have at a later time.?

?If you think about it, you can have all the armor in the world on a tank and a tank can be blown up. And you can have an up-armored Humvee and it can be blown up,? Rumsfeld said. Rumsfeld also faced other questions about equipment shortages and the US role in Iraq after elections scheduled for Jan. 30. ?Now settle down, settle down. Hell, I?m an old man, and it?s early in the morning. I?m just gathering my thoughts here,? the 72-year-old Rumsfeld said lightheartedly at one point.

?Utterly unacceptable?

In Washington, Democratic Sen. Christopher Dodd of Connecticut called Rumsfeld?s comments about the armor ?stunning,?and said in a letter to the secretary, ?Your response ? You go to war with the Army you have? ? is utterly unacceptable.? The Army has acknowledged problems in supplying sufficient numbers of the armored Humvee, a light vehicle that without extra armor can be especially vulnerable to attacks by insurgents using roadside bombs and rocket-propelled grenades. At the Pentagon, chief spokesman Lawrence Di Rita said US Central Command, responsible for military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan, had asked for 21,000 Humvees with extra armor, and about 19,000 had been provided. Bush administration officials, in particular Rumsfeld, have repeatedly rejected charges that insufficient forces were sent to Iraq after last year?s invasion to stabilize the country, which is now in the grip of a bloody insurrection.

Another soldier asked Rumsfeld what the Pentagon was doing ?to address shortages and antiquated equipment that National Guard soldiers ... are going to roll into Iraq with?? The soldier was referring to allegations that regular Army units have been given better equipment than reservists. ?No way I can prove it, but I?m told that the Army is breaking its neck to see that there is not a differentiation? in the quality of equipment, Rumsfeld said. Another soldier asked Rumsfeld about the Army?s ?stop-loss? policy that has prevented thousands of troops serving in Iraq and Afghanistan from leaving the military when their volunteer service commitment ends.

Rumsfeld said it was a fact of life for troops during war because it helped maintain ?cohesion? for units needed on the battlefield. ?It?s basically a sound principle, it?s nothing new, it?s been well understood? by soldiers, he said. ?My guess is it will continue to be used as little as possible, but that it will continue to be used.?

In Washington, Republican Senator John McCain criticized that approach. ?We?ve got to expand the size of the military in order to handle a situation we?re going to be in for many years, and stop-loss is a terrible thing for morale,? he told CNN. Rumsfeld later flew to India for talks with Indian officials at the end of a trip that took him to Kabul to see Karzai sworn in on Tuesday

Tabassum ZAKARIA

RELATIONS BETWEEN INDIA AND THE US

Rumsfeld wants to build stronger ties

■ US Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said yesterday he would build stronger defence ties with India, a day after New Delhi warned Washington against selling warplanes and weapons to nuclear rival Pakistan. Rumsfeld, who is in India on the final leg of a regional tour, held talks on a range of issues with his Indian counterpart Pranab Mukherjee, the first top level discussions since US President George Bush?s re-election last month. "Our friendship is strong, and something that we intend to see as further knitted together as we go forward in the months and years ahead," he told reporters. Relations between India and the United States, who were on opposite sides of the Cold War, have warmed in recent years, but Washington?s decision to embrace Pakistan, as a vital ally in the war against terror has been an irritant. Ahead of the talks, Indian Foreign Minister Natwar Singh said New Delhi had repeatedly told Washington that its plans to sell surveillance aircraft and anti-tank missiles to Pakistan would hurt peace prospects on the sub-continent. "We have pointed out that supply of arms to Pakistan at a time when India-Pakistan dialogue is at a sensitive stage, would have a negative impact," Singh told the lower house of parliament in a debate on foreign policy on Wednesday. The Pentagon last month notified the US Congress of three proposed arms sales to Pakistan worth $1.2 billion, including eight P-3C Orion surveillance planes. Islamabad is also seeking F-16 fighter aircraft. Rumsfeld said he had invited Mukherjee for more talks in Washington. "We have discussed all kinds of things that are important to our two ministries," said Rumsfeld in brief remarks after the meeting. He did not answer questions from journalists. Rumsfeld was also due to meet Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and Natwar Singh before flying back to Washington later in the day. The visit is his first to India since the Congress-party led government took power earlier this year.India and Pakistan, both nuclear armed, are in the midst of peace talks that have failed to produce any breakthrough since the tentative process began early this year.